Reality check

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Jefferson1977
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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Sun May 03, 2020 4:26 am

The other thing I have to say here is that to live free is not to live without risk; on the contrary, it is to live with risk each and every day, but with the hope that you can make tomorrow better and with less risk. And Humans show that they are good are making things better.

Alternatively you can be "safe" with government. Safe right up until they put you out to pasture.
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Sun May 03, 2020 5:38 am

Live Free? Ha ha ha, as if that's possible even without the pandemic. We ALL have to live by laws and rules, otherwise we'd be living in a Mad Max world where you are never truly safe.

Let's call them what they are, criminals. Disobey a law (emergency order, etc) and you are a criminal, not some kind of freaking hero standing up for your rights. Under the emergency orders, your rights can be curtailed. If you don't like it, you have a couple choices... Break the law, and be punished, or run for office, work to change the ability for the government to do this, or leave, go somewhere else that you think offers more freedom.

Sweden is spreading manure to keep people from gathering, their mortality rate is climbing,

My math was correct, for every 1% mortality rate, 50 million people would die. That means if the mortality rate ends up being 10%, then 500 million people would die.

So if you want to go out, stop for a moment, and think, who would you sacrifice so that you can get a haircut?

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Sun May 03, 2020 5:42 am

Jefferson1977 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:26 am
Alternatively you can be "safe" with government. Safe right up until they put you out to pasture.
The problem seems to be a massive distrust of government.

I guess that is an admission that democracy does not work? Perhaps it would be better if they just welded you into your home if you are sick, and left you to die, like the Chinese did. Solved the problem quickly, and they are getting people back to normal now while we still struggle.

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Re: Reality check

Post by zoicster » Mon May 04, 2020 8:07 pm

Oh no Mr. Bill

I never thought when I grew old that I would be a grumpy curmudgeon but here I am KILLING IT.

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 pm

Sure, that's all true, but it misses the whole point of the social distancing. preventing everyone from being exposed too quickly, and overwhelming the health care system. Implying that everyone should ignore medical advice, and instead trust another tv star, well, that sounds rather american to me...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Mon May 04, 2020 9:10 pm

odam2k wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 pm
and instead trust another tv star, well, that sounds rather american to me...
and a comedian to boot...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Mon May 04, 2020 10:10 pm

I am glad to see we are moving toward reopening things, I do understand the hardship people have suffered. Heck, I bet some couples haven't spent this much time together their entire marriages!

I still trust our leaders on this, and if they say it's time to re-open, then I'm ok with that. I'll continue to keep a low profile (ie, my normal life) and with any luck, this thing won't return in a second wave far more aggressive than the first.

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Wed May 06, 2020 7:21 pm

odam2k wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 5:42 am
Jefferson1977 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:26 am
Alternatively you can be "safe" with government. Safe right up until they put you out to pasture.
The problem seems to be a massive distrust of government.

I guess that is an admission that democracy does not work? Perhaps it would be better if they just welded you into your home if you are sick, and left you to die, like the Chinese did. Solved the problem quickly, and they are getting people back to normal now while we still struggle.
This government has certainly not shown itself to be altogether trustworthy. There have been scandals like SNC where our own Prime Minister probably deserved to be brought up on charges or ethics violations at the very least! A healthy mistrust of government ensures all of our freedoms.
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Wed May 06, 2020 7:27 pm

odam2k wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 5:38 am
Live Free? Ha ha ha, as if that's possible even without the pandemic. We ALL have to live by laws and rules, otherwise we'd be living in a Mad Max world where you are never truly safe.

Let's call them what they are, criminals. Disobey a law (emergency order, etc) and you are a criminal, not some kind of freaking hero standing up for your rights. Under the emergency orders, your rights can be curtailed. If you don't like it, you have a couple choices... Break the law, and be punished, or run for office, work to change the ability for the government to do this, or leave, go somewhere else that you think offers more freedom.

Sweden is spreading manure to keep people from gathering, their mortality rate is climbing,

My math was correct, for every 1% mortality rate, 50 million people would die. That means if the mortality rate ends up being 10%, then 500 million people would die.

So if you want to go out, stop for a moment, and think, who would you sacrifice so that you can get a haircut?
Well I guess you never broke a corrupt law in your life? You always smoked WEED LEGALLY right? Never took an illicit drug? :mrgreen:
You were a criminal not some kind of freaking hero right?

BTW Sweden has a lower mortality rate than the UK, Italy, other countries that have imposed lockdown.
According to the latest statistics, Sweden has recorded 2,679 COVID-19 deaths, for a rate of 265 per million.

Denmark is next in Scandinavia at 84 COVID-19 deaths per million.

That compares to just 39 per million in Norway and 42 per million in Finland.

But even with its approach, Sweden's COVID-19 death rate still remains far lower than the rates in other countries that have imposed economic lockdowns.

For example, Spain's COVID-19 death rate is 540 per million. Italy is at 478 per million, Great Britain is at 419 per million, and France is at 381 per million.

The architect of Sweden's strategy has been its chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell.

https://www.straight.com/covid-19-pande ... ent-into-a
May 3, 2020
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Wed May 06, 2020 9:11 pm

Jefferson1977 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:27 pm
Well I guess you never broke a corrupt law in your life? You always smoked WEED LEGALLY right? Never took an illicit drug? :mrgreen:
You were a criminal not some kind of freaking hero right?
Me, innocent? Not even close. Just because a law is unjust doesn't mean it is not illegal to break that law. Of course I was a criminal for smoking pot all my life. I had no delusions that I was some kind of hero. In fact, my choice to smoke pot did not help spread a deadly virus during a pandemic. That's why they are EMERGENCY ORDERS, they are important...

We'll see, it will be a shame to have to go through all this again because we didn't listen to the experts. If it comes to that, it will be a lot worse than it was this time, I bet most businesses would never even have a chance, nobody would have jobs to go back to, the govt will run out of money to help, all because we couldn't wait another week or month.... So far, my Father has not caught this, and I'm not willing to risk him getting it just so his neighbor can go out and mingle just to prove some sense of personal freedom.

See, told you we wouldn't convince each other :)

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Wed May 06, 2020 9:22 pm

My dad is 90, my mom is 88 and they came over yesterday for a BBQ and I had to fix both their computers, then they came in the house and hung out. Their choice. We have been isolating well of our own accord and I wear a full SEA mask when going shopping etc. They however don't even wear a mask when they go out shopping and went to their cottage (they like me are refusing to obey communist edicts not to tend to their property). I guess they have more courage than a lot of people. They choose to live how they want to in the end of their days, even though they are the target population at most risk. Good for them, that is their choice. As a population we have to tell all these petty authoritarians to fuck off. We can live free and accept the consequences, or take on the yoke of authoritarian control. That's how I feel and although we don't agree we are free to disagree.
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:55 pm

odam2k wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 5:42 am
Jefferson1977 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:26 am
Alternatively you can be "safe" with government. Safe right up until they put you out to pasture.
Perhaps it would be better if they just welded you into your home if you are sick, and left you to die, like the Chinese did. Solved the problem quickly, and they are getting people back to normal now while we still struggle.
Interesting you should say this is what should be done to people. Dr. Theresa Tam who is leading the Canadian response to this also said a bunch of things the Chinese did.

Hmmmmm.



Hope outtake footage by Rebel News is not too triggering a source. Not that you would see this footage or reporting anywhere else....
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 4:20 am

Yeah, from all my previous arguments, you think my solution is to simply let people die so that you can go get your hair cut... Now your making it personal by putting words in MY mouth.

Oh, so if the Chinese did something, we should NOT do that same thing? Funny you should say that we should not test people, or admit them to hospitals, cause that's what the chinese want us to do... See, silly way to try to make a point... it's ok, I know you aren't saying that... :)

Look, things are starting to relax, and according to "your side" this thing is just going to go away, and we can go back to normal. It's ok, Trump says so too, so it must be true.

Let's revisit this in 6 months and see where we are cause that's the only way we're going to know what the right answer is.

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 4:34 am

Don't we already put bracelets on the ankles of criminals who are released from jail, but under house arrest? Where's your outrage about that?

If you are sick, and have been quarantined, and you ignore it, then yes, a bracelet, or incarceration is acceptable. (think Typhoid Mary)

This was 10 years ago, she is talking about something like a small pox pandemic judging from the sign on the door. So these comments are NOT about the current situation anyhow.

And because she worked at WHO, an organization controlled by the Chinese? Oh, ok, now we're into the conspiracy theories, new world order, etc...

ah, it's all just click-bait to get you to go to their web site to try to fire her. Over something she said 10 years ago? It's her job to prevent the spread, not cater to the pansy ass snowflakes.

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 5:21 am

Jefferson1977 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:22 pm
As a population we have to tell all these petty authoritarians to fuck off. We can live free and accept the consequences, or take on the yoke of authoritarian control. That's how I feel and although we don't agree we are free to disagree.
Live Free and ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES?
Ok, name two people... who would you consider to be the consequences? Your Mom and Dad? Would that make you proud of them?

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 5:23 am

Look, I don't want to keep doing this, so go ahead, I'll give you the last word, then I'm done.

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Re: Reality check

Post by zoicster » Thu May 07, 2020 11:37 am

If you own a cellphone and take it with you outside of your residence then you are already carrying the equivalent of an ankle bracelet, as that is "their" ultimate tracking device, at least according to Edward Snowden, the NSA whistle blower.

I do not understand why having a different opinion needs to turn into a pissing contest. Many people have a difference of opinion which is part of the reason why we have a choice of which official or party we want to govern us, yet we still co-exist peacefully with a few exceptions.

I really do not care about what happens out there, only in here where I at least have a modicum of control and choice. My wife read this thread and is not impressed with some of my views in this thread. She still loves me though because above all else she appreciates and respects that in this house we both have freewill.
I never thought when I grew old that I would be a grumpy curmudgeon but here I am KILLING IT.

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 1:08 pm

zoicster wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:37 am
If you own a cellphone and take it with you outside of your residence then you are already carrying the equivalent of an ankle bracelet, as that is "their" ultimate tracking device, at least according to Edward Snowden, the NSA whistle blower.
Again, who is "THEIR"?

https://www.androidcentral.com/how-view ... oogle-maps

I've always believed in "Security by obscurity". With SO MUCH info available out there, why would anyone want my info?

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu May 07, 2020 1:41 pm

zoicster wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:37 am
I do not understand why having a different opinion needs to turn into a pissing contest. Many people have a difference of opinion which is part of the reason why we have a choice of which official or party we want to govern us, yet we still co-exist peacefully with a few exceptions.

I really do not care about what happens out there, only in here where I at least have a modicum of control and choice. My wife read this thread and is not impressed with some of my views in this thread. She still loves me though because above all else she appreciates and respects that in this house we both have freewill.
I'm more concerned that this forum has taken an official position of supporting these protesters, yep, the same people praised by Donald Trump. That in itself should be enough to tell you they are wrong, lol.

I have very strong feelings on this, as do we all, unfortunately, we won't know who's right until either the virus disappears on its own without a vaccine, or the second wave hits and decimates society because we end up having to shut down again. Remember the president, he said, THERE ARE 15 CASES, AND THAT'S GOING DOWN TO ZERO, WE HAVE THIS TOTALLY UNDER CONTROL.... Same guy praising the "heroes" who are protesting the restrictions.

I've spent the past 3 years tip-toeing around a couple of my own family members who are Trump supporters, trying not to insult them. Recently, I decided that if they are stupid enough to support Trump, then they really are about as dumb as a bag of bricks, and said so on my facebook page. Not sure if they are still following me or not, but really don't care, the truth can hurt sometimes. Problem is, we all have our own truths.

When I was younger, I was more flexible, and a little more tactful, mostly kept some stuff to myself given I had a career where my personal opinions would reflect on my employer. Well, now I don't have to worry about that :)

Seems I just can't extricate myself from this discussion... Perhaps a timeout will help :)

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:29 pm

odam2k wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 5:21 am
Jefferson1977 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:22 pm
As a population we have to tell all these petty authoritarians to fuck off. We can live free and accept the consequences, or take on the yoke of authoritarian control. That's how I feel and although we don't agree we are free to disagree.
Live Free and ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES?
Ok, name two people... who would you consider to be the consequences? Your Mom and Dad? Would that make you proud of them?
Yes, I would be proud of them for living free up until they died from whatever thing they ended up dying from. It's their choice how they choose to live, not mine, and I would respect that fact..they are choosing to live as they want and I can not stop them. If they die from Corona they are okay with it, and they are far more likely statistically to die than anyone else from it anyways.
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:59 am

odam2k wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:20 am
Look, things are starting to relax, and according to "your side" this thing is just going to go away, and we can go back to normal. It's ok, Trump says so too, so it must be true.

Let's revisit this in 6 months and see where we are cause that's the only way we're going to know what the right answer is.
Well, we didn't have to wait 6 months, it looks like we already have the answer... Just look at the US, the land of the FREE, and the SICK, and the DYING... Even here in Canada, we hear stories of group infections, but for the most part, we've done a lot better, possibly erring on the side of being overly cautious, but that's better than the alternative.

It will be sad to watch the US go through another complete shutdown if it comes to that, although perhaps Trump has figured out that it's better to let the virus ravage the US than to have angry pissed off Americans rioting in the streets because they don't like being told to wear a mask, or be socially responsible. Be responsible, don't wait to be told...

Remember what JFK said? "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."

Anyhow, good news, the wife had her Aortic Valve replaced yesterday, she's already home and doing well. Before they went ahead, they gave her a Covid test (to see if she currently has the virus) and she did not. That pretty well means I do not as well, since we are together 24/7. We stay home, and when we leave the apartment, the mask goes on, and we try to maintain distance from others. I won't let anyone on the elevator with me unless they have a mask on, It is the law in my area, and the last thing we need is for my wife to get Covid, which would have meant no surgery, and now, during her recovery, it would be a disaster.

So my position on this has not changed at all, and while some of you may disagree, luckily, MOST Canadians are following the guidance from the experts, and proving that it does work, while our American friends, well, it looks like Trump is finally starting to see the light, at least he will wear a mask, and he now acknowledges that things will get a lot worse before they get better. Perhaps he's preparing them for the second shutdown? Right now, Americans aren't welcome in most places in the world, certainly Europe, and Canada. Our border will likely remain closed for the rest of the year.

Oh, and Sweden, where they didn't do a shutdown, turns out the economic losses are nearly as bad as if they did shut down. People just aren't out spending money like normal, and most of their manufacturing is destined for foreign markets, where everything was shut down, so those manufacturers ended up idling their plants, putting people out of work.

Anyhow, that's how I see it right now, it's certainly been an interesting year. I hope you are all safe and well, just stay the fuck away from me :shock:

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:35 pm

Good news about your wife's surgery glad to hear she's okay.
So many strains, so little time...

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:59 am

Jefferson1977 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:35 pm
Good news about your wife's surgery glad to hear she's okay.
Thank you...

She waited over 5 months for surgery even though they would have done it immediately if not for the virus.

She did not have open heart surgery, it was a Trans-catheter Aortic Valve Implant, so she was only in the hospital one night. Amazing really, and she says she immediately felt the difference. She was always short of breath, and her heart would race for no reason. Now she just has to let the incisions
heal (they went up through the artery from her groin) so I'm playing housewife for a week or two waiting on her hand and foot, afterall, she has done that for me for the past 40 years :)

I'm sure all of this had a big influence on my attitude toward the virus, after all, if she had caught it before her surgery, she may not have been able to fight it off, and when it's someone that close, it's scary.

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Re: Reality check

Post by odam2k » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:15 am

odam2k wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:41 pm
I'm more concerned that this forum has taken an official position of supporting these protesters
In reflection, I realize the FORUM itself does not have an opinion, it is only a place for individuals to have opinions...

I really did need that timeout. About 2 years ago I was constantly posting on my Facebook page, everything I hated about Trump, the more I followed him, the angrier I got, till one day I realized I was spending all my free time (which I have plenty of!) reposting and ranting on and on. Now, I'm not normally an angry person, or hateful in any way, but I went way overboard. While I know most of my Facebook "friends" agreed with me, it was getting monotonous and I knew some people just un-followed me. So I stopped, I quit reading anything about Trump and stopped posting anything I disagreed with. My whole attitude changed, I was no longer angry, I just concentrated on the things I could control, my own life, and was a lot happier. Then along came the virus, and before I knew it, I was right back there, So once again, I'm trying to concentrate on the things I can control. I do enjoy the look on peoples face when I tell them they have to wait for the next elevator because they aren't wearing a mask (it's the law).

So, apologies to anyone I may have offended here, but given the current news from around the world, I feel vindicated,

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:24 pm

What's interesting is that despite no lockdowns, Sweden now has less than 2 deaths a week for the past few weeks.

Image
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Re: Reality check

Post by Growerofmids » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:59 pm

Just keep the borders locked down,don't let anyone in.The usa did too themselves,them and their rights🙄 They like too get together and riot about being told too stay home.Out in huge groups over racism and dirty cops.It's hot out..lets all go to the beach in droves

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Re: Reality check

Post by Jefferson1977 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:25 am

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So many strains, so little time...

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